M-Audio FireWire 410 -- Confusing and Crappy
First, a disclaimer: I am not a professional musician or an audio engineer. But I have worked in radio for over 30 years. So, I think that it is not just my incompetence that has made my experience with the M-Audio FireWire 410 audio interface a hair-pulling-out nightmare.
For those not familiar with the FireWire 410, I should explain that its function is to provide a hardware, FireWire-based connection between audio sources (microphones, instruments, etc.) and your computer.
Setting it up is a mind-numbing experience, as I've found during hours of configuration hell on both Windows and Mac machines. In fact, even though I've had it for over a year, some of my audio software still does not work properly with it.
But the most crappy thing about it can be found in this warning in its manual:
So, for its Byzantine set-up and for requiring that one must plug in the M-Audio FireWire 410 only when your computer is powered down, I hereby declare it a crappy piece of software (and hardware).
For those not familiar with the FireWire 410, I should explain that its function is to provide a hardware, FireWire-based connection between audio sources (microphones, instruments, etc.) and your computer.
Setting it up is a mind-numbing experience, as I've found during hours of configuration hell on both Windows and Mac machines. In fact, even though I've had it for over a year, some of my audio software still does not work properly with it.
But the most crappy thing about it can be found in this warning in its manual:
IMPORTANT: It has come to our attention that problems have been reported with several types of IEEE1394 (“FireWire”) devices, including MAudio FireWire devices. These problems occur when using a 6-pin bus-powered connection when plugging and unplugging external FireWire devices, when both the computer and external device are powered on. This is commonly referred to as “hotplugging”. In some cases the FireWire port on the host computer system is rendered permanently inoperable. In other cases the external FireWire device is rendered permanently inoperable. M-Audio does not want users of M-Audio FireWire products to experience such costly problems. Therefore, M-Audio must require that users of M-Audio FireWire devices refrain from hotplugging any M-Audio FireWire device. You must make your FireWire connection while both computer and FireWire device are powered off; then power on.I have never heard of a FireWire device (or USB device, for that matter) that will render a port "permanently inoperable" just from plugging it in while the computer is already on. Fer cryin' out loud, that ability to "hot plug" is one of the main selling points of FireWire/USB connections.
So, for its Byzantine set-up and for requiring that one must plug in the M-Audio FireWire 410 only when your computer is powered down, I hereby declare it a crappy piece of software (and hardware).
posted by Jeremy Butler at 4:36 PM
14 Comments:
You are exactlly right! The M-Audio Firewire 410 will go down in history as the most legendary, lemon-flavored PC/Mac audio interface. They have had years now to work out the bugs in the drivers/hardware but they just can't seem to do it!
I agree,and Thankfully I got My 410 Second hand for a lot less than a new one.Why can't you hot plug it?....Their Crap Drivers.
One thing to note is that you cannot have ANYTHING connected from the 410 to your computer during driver install. This includes not only the firewire but the Audio outs also,and any other plug for that matter. I've used it successfully with Amplitube/and Guitar Rig 2. But NOW cannot use it at all because I recently Upgraded my main PC to Vista Ultimate (Figured I'd start figuring MS Vistas Glitches Now,rather than Later) M Audi Only offers a Beta Driver,which even after 3 attempts to install,promptly Gives My Dual Core PC (with 2gbDDR,and A 150gb Raptor for OS/500GB Mirrored RAID)
The Blue Screen of Death.
I've only had 2 or 3 Vista Tweaks to fix,Mcafee,Nero,Update Hardware Drivers...And M Audio...Only one Remains..and guess which one that is! BTW M Audio Does Not Respond to Help emails Either. Good Luck!
Update.r/t Vista Driver...Worked with Jose From M Audio on Tuesday. Went through the Steps,Delete Driver,Delete any TEMP File. Restart,Download Driver,Installed Driver,Restarted as M Audio and Jose Requested...OS Load Screen,and BOOM before you get to the Desktop...Blue Screen of Death/Crash. He Then Emailed me back saying that the Reason the Driver Caused Vista to Crash was possibly using a MotherBoard Firewire Plug instead of a PCI one.Only Problem is that the M Audio 410 Was not Connected to my PC AT ALL at the Time of the Driver install(Heck it was sitting across the Room!)...guess I'll Try that too....Must Be Something Else..It COuldn't be the Driver Could It?....Umm YES it Could!
BTW After Speaking with their "Tech Support" Line..I am a little Concerned about how Savy they are,and where they're from...Do they Even Know what the Product is/Have Any Experience with it?...Stay Tuned
I've had one for a bit over a year and found it to be a great product... i found the mixer confusing at first but got it working with CubaseSX, guitar rig, etc the same day i got it.
I also hot plug mine all the time, i dont care if it breaks the port, firewire cards are cheap.... but it never has had a problem.
I have the FW410 on a Mac and can confirm that whilst the hardware is 'ok' the drivers are the most bug riddled pieces of crap probably ever known to man, hell, they've only had like 5 years to sort the sorry thing out! Support is a joke too, constantly told to "reinstall drivers" LOL. How about you learn to write them first you monkeys! it now resides as the worlds biggest pro tools dongle. Nice one M-Audio,-you totally suck.
I'm glad to have found a place to leave a comment about the Firewire 410. This thing has caused me problems for years now, and I thought it was just me!!!
Here's a cute feature nobody else mentioned: The device crashes entirely if a plug in a completely seperate firewire device to my computer! This is a computer with multiple firewire ports. I'm not even talking about the COMPLETELY WORTHLESS extra firewire port that's built into the 410.
I have used the 410 in my studio for a year and a half now and it worked fine. Until 3 days ago when some sound bursts started coming out of the speakers. After that it was a nightmare consisting in the card constantly disconnecting itself from the computer while on. I changed the cable and the same happened. I borrowed another 410 from a friend and it worked ok with the same computer and same cable. One of the two FW connectors in my card doesn't work at all, and the other has this behavior of working fine and after a while disconnecting itself. Offcourse I upgraded the drivers and the firmware, but it's still not working. I have never hotplugged my device since I bought it, so I don't have a f**king clue of what has happened. The worst thing is that the guarantee is over and nobody seems to be able to fix it. Off course I contacted M-Audio and they didn't answer. I am using Pro Tools M-Powered so I'm stuck with shitty M-Audio until I have enough money to buy Pro Tools HD or something really pro. I hate M-Audio.
Judging from all the comments (almost all negative) on this one post, I could start an entire blog JUST about the craposity of the M-Audio Firewire 410!
I have to agree with all of these comments. What a total piece of junk this thing is. I had it working for 3 months with all kinds of software weirdness on the Mac, but was able to get it to work in spite of many headaches. Then the thing just suddenly died on me.. driver reinstalls didn't help, and tried it on another system, same thing.
Now I'm running an Alesis MultiMix 8 which has hardware knobs instead of M-Audio's lame software utility, and in a way I'm kind of glad this thing crapped out otherwise I'd hav e never realized what I was missing.
My FireWire 410 crashes on a OS X 10.4 machine when it goes to sleep and on my 10.5 machine when I plug in another FireWire device - in this case a FireWire 800 drive.
I think the problem may be due to the fact that the thing takes its power from the FireWire port so anything that upsets that power supply makes it crap out. That explains why they want you to plug it when the computer is off./
If that's the case the drivers can't do much.
I've been working as a professional recording engineer for 8 years and a computer tech for about 12, and I've found the M-Audio FW410 to be nothing but rock solid. The hardware is what it is, and the software/drivers are fine. I have never had a problem on any systems I've used it on. All I can say is read the manual as far as install goes...it's not the inferface's fault if you can't follow install directions, or if you fry your hardware by not using the "remove hardware safely" option in the taskbar.
M-AUDIO is the most crappy company I ever bought from. One I first bought my Firewire solo there was advertised on the box that I will get Logic for free. I never received that. After too much insisting the told me to contact the company behind logic, a kind of F* you!
Now, I am trying to make the crappy firewire solo to work on my mac. Without any driver, just using Apple's drivers, the crappy fw solo works sometimes, sometimes not.
I have download their new crappy driver. Now, I connect my firewire solo and it says that the firmware is being updated and will just take 2 minuts... well, 20 minutes has passed and I am still not able to use the crappy FWSolo.
Their support is crap. Their drivers are a pure piece of stinking dump and their products sometimes work sometimes don't.
I bought the Firewire 410 a week back.First thing: It doesnt work with the built in firewire port of the laptop.I tried it on both my laptops.I calledup the support and after hours together someone comes online and says that it would work only with a PCMCAI card and that too only with the Texas Instrument model. This is an absolute torture. I am fine to feel the pain of losing 15% while i return this now but i dont want to go through any more of this torture. I have used M-AUDIO Nova,M-AUDIO Ozone...and never faced any problem but Firewire 410 sucks big time.
my (2nd hand) 410 worked very erractically for a few days and now on os x 10.5.4 causes a page fault which brings the OS down with a reboot screen a few minutes after boot (usually) and/or randomly hangs/dies during use. i wouldn't recommend it for anyone, at least on 10.5.x...
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